James Cameron, CEO and founder of Mission Motorsport talks with Tabs and Kate about passion and finding meaning in life, alongside creating an awesome charity which supports thousands of veterans.

James Cameron is the founder and CEO of Mission Motorsport, an incredible charity that supports wounded, sick and injured veterans through recovery, retraining and into employment, with motorsport at it's heart. A former Major in the Royal Tank Regiment, the difference the charity makes to people's lives is extraordinary. We talk about mental, physical and emotional health and how a conduit such a racing can enable some, on occasion, deeply difficult but important conversations. James is a fantastic force of nature, we talk about passion, giving of yourself and the power of the endless pursuit of meaning in our lives. James openly shares his own story and his wisdom and insight on building this amazing charity and community. The annual Race of Remembrance is an event of particular poignance. His LinkedIn profile states that he is a Professional Lucky Bloke, that's not even the half of it!
It's an insightful one; full of passion, candour, intelligence and wit.
Thank you for listening, Tabs and Kate ❤️

Title: James Cameron, CEO and founder of Mission Motorsport talks with Tabs and Kate about passion and finding meaning in life, alongside creating an awesome charity which supports thousands of veterans.

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Tabi: 

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Welcome to Lifestream, a podcast to inspire and provoke. In which we delve

into the meaning of success. We chat development, self-care and journeys with some absolutely amazing people.

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We are a mother daughter duo who have both had some very different life experiences. This is my wonderful mum, Kate Tojeiro. She is deep in the world of business, leadership, and she really cares about how people can make a difference.

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Kate:

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And this is my brilliant daughter Tabi Tojeiro. She graduated last summer as an actor and she works in luxury events, social media and does some work in voice and communications coaching, and is also looking at her next path into the world as she moves forward, which is very exciting. 

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But today we're absolutely thrilled that we've got James Cameron with us. James Cameron is the CEO of Mission Motorsport, a brilliant charity that helps deliver recovery and rehabilitation to veterans affected by military operations.

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Mission Motorsport works tirelessly to provide opportunities in motorsport and the automotive industry. They support wounded, injured or sick veterans through recovery in sport and thousands more into employment, and their motto is race, retrain, recover.

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Before setting up Mission Motorsport. James was a Major in the Royal Tank Regiment, and it's an absolute honour to have you with us today. Thank you for joining us.

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James:

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It's lovely to be here. Thank you.

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Kate: 

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The first question I wanted to ask is, you've been an ARDS instructor. For those of you who don’t know what that is, that’s the Association of Racing Driver Schools instructor for many years.

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And so as motorsport cars, tanks, obviously run through your veins for a while what sparked, I suppose, Mission Motorsport, was that what it was, in 2012?

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James:

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Yeah, I think I'm a very reluctant charity boss. It was certainly never what I wanted to do.

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The idea of starting another service charity I thought was a horrendous idea at the time.

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12 years later, I know for a fact it was a horrendous idea. I think it's the most difficult

way of doing anything, but it's also kind of the right way to do things and to be accountable for where the money goes. And also a charity is fundamentally a values driven organisation and that's really why I started to do what I was doing. I cared deeply for a group of society who I really wanted to help. Having a background in motorsport, as you've identified, I've raced for a long time and instructed for a long time. I knew stuff about one of the avenues of sport that could be used for recovery purposes more than the MOD.

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So I jumped up and down and raged about what I saw that was going wrong until the inevitable happened, and somebody ordered me to write a paper. And, that paper sets out

some recommendations and what the Ministry of Defense chose to do was the right thing, to bring together an area of recovery sport that was for the forces Motorsport charity.

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And so that began on the 1st of March, 2012, entirely as a voluntary driven thing. And, some sort of 12 or 13 years on, I suppose I worry slightly that I lack imagination still sort of doing that now, but it's amazing, really, how things have grown and developed since that point.

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Kate: 

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Absolutely.

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Tabi: 

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And do you feel because as you said, charities are kind of based on empathy, wanting to help - that's how most charities are set up.

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And obviously, with you in the military, do you find when you’re with the people you’re helping, so you're at an event or chatting to someone or something like that, obviously it

must hit a lot closer to home because you really understand and you can sympathise and empathise.

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What for you on a personal level, do you find the most rewarding about being the CEO of Mission Motorsport?

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James: 

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Charity is absolutely based, I mean, charity is to give and how charity starts is to give of yourself for something which kind of drives you. And that's those charity articles.

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I had just come back from Afghanistan in 2011. I was quite profoundly impacted,

I think not just by that tour, but by 17 years in service. And, the big bit about that is, when you’re in a position of responsibility, you have a duty of care for those who you have

the privilege of being able to look after.

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And that was something that I really sort of struggled to put down. Having come back

from Afghanistan in 2011, I still cared about the outcomes of the people that I deployed with and that had spread quite effortlessly to lots of others that you then sort of collect along the way. So it's easy to find motivation to get out of bed and go do things in the morning because you're working towards an outcome for people that you really care about.

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We've done some really sort of sexy and interesting and cool things, you know, which is nice. We're recording this just before going into Christmas, and it's one of those times of year my black tie gets an absolute hammering for different things, all of which are great and shiny and lovely, but the really rewarding stuff is the little outcomes, which might seem really small, but for those individuals, they're absolutely extraordinary. And you see people who have lacked confidence to be able to go and do things beginning to take steps which they own themselves, and they're becoming self-sufficient. They're developing their own communities, they're becoming successful in life. And those are the things that really reward me and I'm incredibly fortunate to have a job that still allows me to be around soldiers, sailors, airmen, aviators, as we call them these days. I think that's the non gendered term for those that serve in the Royal Air Force. And I get to be around them, and that's the most extraordinary privilege of my job, which I still absolutely adore. So, yeah, that's really lovely.

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And I have to remind myself of that as I find myself on teams meetings and zoom calls or wearing a suit and commuting on a bloody train and doing those bits and pieces, I still get,

I do still get those those bits and pieces of the human connection and helping people,

which is the stuff I really love.

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Kate: 

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Yeah, it's really interesting you say that. Earlier this week, I came across Johnny Paul,

who supports numerous fashion initiatives, and he was talking about knowing his place, which really, really struck me.

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I was very lucky a few years ago, which is how I met you to be at Goodwood with a car supporting Mission Motorsport and actually, long before I spoke to you, I spoke to a lot of veterans, and I think in talking to them at the side of the track, talking about not only the physical help that you give people and the recovery, but actually the emotional help and that whole bit about what the place is, having had such a, you know. I so admire people in forces that have served, do serve, the admiration and gratitude and to have had such a position and I suppose, like many of us civilians, albeit completely different, that confidence in an environment when you're suddenly somewhere else is so hard, you know, finding that place and what that place means.

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And I remember these two young men that I was talking to in the paddocks. They were saying that that's what it had given them, that they felt as though they had a place again,

because they knew what that place was and then all of a sudden it was like they had no place.

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But of course they did, but couldn't find it. And it’s just brilliant, is that what you intended to do?

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James:

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Totally. That’s what it’s about. 

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Well, I love sport and, and as you said right at the beginning clearly the cars and tanks and things like that. I like things which move literally, but there's a whole figurative part of that as well, things that transport you, your mood, your sense of self and purpose and all of those bits and pieces, the things that sort of really move you, are fantastic.

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And all sports can do amazing things for people. And, you know, we we get reminded of it

when you watch the Paralympics and stuff like that. Motorsport in particular, there's no disabled category. Motorsport is wonderful, you adapt the vehicle instead of having a separate category for people of different abilities, and they race on the level playing field and that's incredibly potent. But it's also about teamwork and things like that, because it's never just the driver that's doing it.

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You're seeing some really emotive stuff at the moment coming out of Brackley, because Lewis Hamilton is leaving to go after Ferrari after an extended period, after huge success and all of that. But it's the people's narratives that kind of underpin it, which are really lovely because it hasn't just been Lewis on his own. It's Lewis and hundreds of people who've created both that success and motorsport is also full of people who aren't really doing it for the money. If they were really driven by money, they wouldn’t be doing bloody motorsport, you know?

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Kate:

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Yeah.

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James:

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Definitely not be the way to get rich apart from a very particular few. You do it because you're driven by a passion and a shared goal, which you are kind of driving towards. So there is a lovely sort of connection that you can use in that for other things too, and this love of the machine, of automotive, of that kind of thing, you know. The freedom and joy that that can bring you is really wonderful. And if you can harness that and do great things with it, then it's really cool.

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I mean, Christ, if we were honest with these people who were struggling and said, look, we want you to spend your own money to drive across the UK on your own to come and join up with a group of people you've never met before and didn’t necessarily serve with. And we're going to an old Second World War air field where it's probably raining and we'll scare the living daylights out of you and then we'll have you standing around quite a lot with some other people, and we'll ask you some penetrating questions about the state of the relationship with your wife and your finances and your housing, and we’re all gonna have a group hug and talk about PTSD, they wouldn't come near you with a barge pole.

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But if you say “who wants to come to Silverstone to go round in a Koenigsegg with Jodie Kidd, or who wants to learn to drift with Jenson Button, or who wants to come to Goodwood to be taken around in a pre-war Bentley? You're managing the key, and on that simple conceit, an entire program of outputs has been based, but it's a lovely way of, particularly for men, but we do lots as well for women and also for families too, of very quickly getting people talking and doing it in a really honest way. 

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And if you face them onto each other, I'll show my age and talk about that sort of face to face thing that is really difficult to do, to talk about your problems. But if you can rotate them both by 90 degrees and sit them on a riverbank with a fishing rod they'll talk about stuff. You put them in a car somewhere exciting or amazing and you give them things to do and shared responsibility, then you break down a lot of that stuff really quickly, and you get to some real wonderful and honest exchanges. 

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And so a lot of the stuff that we do, it's got nothing to do with sport or motor sport outcomes. We're not trying to do that. It’s about a recovery journey and that race retrain recovery is really articulating the fact that we're using the sport as a tool in order to actually unlock something which is more important, which is those who've served and their families

being successful civilians, helping them to thrive in society, and to be happy and content.

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We're not the destination, we're just the thing that helps them on that journey.

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Tabi:

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Yeah, I think it’s so lovely as well that their family is such a big part of it, because I also was at Goodwood a few years ago and it was lovely. I ended up chatting to people who had served: daughters of, mothers of, and it was so lovely to, I guess, feel from how they were speaking. How part of the community they felt, and there was such a heartbeat to the whole of the event that everyone understood everyone and everyone just wanted to chat and share experiences, and it was lovely to be a part of because for me it's a completely different world. I'm not even close to anyone, actually, that's been in the military, I don't think.

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But it was so lovely to hear how they were speaking about their past experiences and then coming to, as we were at Goodwood and going round a track, and it's like a person

that gets in the car feels so different to the person that gets out with how much they want to talk about it and how amazing their time’s been, and I just think it’s lovely. 

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My dad drove one of his cars around a few years ago and he was saying that when someone got in, if they weren't very chatty, he'd drive them around, then when he came back into the collecting area, he was like “a few of them couldn't stop talking, saying how amazing, how lovely it was.”

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He just said it was the loveliest experience because he wasn't expecting that at all.

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James:

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Absolutely.

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Tabi: 

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And I think it's a lovely thing that family is so heavily involved in the things you do as well. So obviously that's such a big support network of the people you help, which is great.

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James:

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Absolutely. And, you know, we run family events deliberately during the long summer holidays. You know, the point where parents are just at their wits end at what to do, so the opportunity to come along to a thing where the kids are looked after and engaged and go and do cool stuff is really quite attractive for them to be able to do. Or, things like our big national transition event, you know, huge events this year, 24th of February at Silverstone, where we’ll run a big track day 100 odd Supercars and exciting stuff on the GP circuit, but we’ll have more than 160 companies, all of whom support their veterans networks who’ll be upstairs represented. But we'll have a creche facility there as well.

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I've spent rather surreal conversations looking at fun buses and things like that, which is great. Sometimes I quite want to have a go, but if that unlocks this event, which otherwise would be a bit impenetrable for those who've got young young kids and childcare responsibilities, then how can we as a charity make it relevant for them so that they can access that sort of stuff and not be excluded?

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Kate:

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And I've been at that event and as you know, I've been with them, with a client and it's brilliant. And I think going back to Tabi’s point now, and the point you made actually, about emotion and, maybe I’m a bit soft I don’t know, but I'm always so moved, so moved

when I come to one of your events.

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On a serious note, unlocking emotion is so powerful, is it not? Say when we're side by side with someone having those feelings, particularly if they're hard or they're difficult, that might be put in the box but actually, they need a place to come out. And I think, therefore what you do to enable that to happen, that they're still gritty and raw and a bit hard, but at least there's a beginning of a process or a catharsis around talking.

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I wanted to ask about Race of Remembrance, which is just another brilliant initiative. And like you said earlier, before we came on air, exciting things happening there, which is awesome.

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James: 

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It's so cool. I mean, ten years ago, we could also do a weekend at Anglesey Circuit, which is perched on the cliffs above the Irish Sea in November, but it aligned with Remembrance Weekend. And instead of just going and doing a track day, or a bit of low level instruction, which would have been easy, we had a volunteer, a guy I served with, a helicopter pilot lunatic called John who insisted we needed to do a motor race. And that felt like Guernsey launching a space mission for a small charity. I think we had about two and a half employees, I was the half I think at that point, to launch an endurance motor race, 

and it's a 12 hour race split between Saturday and Sunday. It goes into the night, into the dark on the Saturday, and then the balance of the six hours is across the day on the Sunday.

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But it all stops. So the safety car goes out at 10:30, collects the field, brings them together, and we do the service of remembrance in the pit lane, which you've got about 1200 people

all coming together in the pit line, and I don't know what it is. It rained on us this year, I think for the first time, normally it’s the clouds and it stops raining for the service. 

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Kate:

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Yeah.

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James:

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But no wind, all you can hear is the waves on the cliffs below. And when you're doing that,

on the falling notes of a bugle doing the last post with a thousand people who were all in that moment. We never do mindfulness in the modern age, you know. If you have half a second, you get your phone out and you look at it and you distract yourself instantly. And it's just this sort of shared, it's absolutely a thing. And of course, we've got a recovery sport, front rank, ranks, and Americans and Canadians who come across for it as well and they're not thinking about necessarily the trenches in World War One and that traditional remembrance narrative, their context and those families is something that's altogether more personal, more real and more in the moment.

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But you've got an awful lot of other people there as well who are thinking about the things which are precious to them. And it's this extraordinary thing. It’s taking you to a really interesting, collective, emotional place, but you don't dwell because there's the rest of a motor race.

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So you've got this incredible sort of, alright, let’s go racing lift at the end of it, because 15 minutes later 56 teams are out on track again. You know, the whole thing is running and marshals are back in the marshal positions. And it all is kind of running and you've got this wonderful lift through to the end of the race. And when we first did it, I mean, I stood in the pit lane and just had these two simultaneous emotions. The first one was, “God,

this is amazing” it's a proper hairs on the back of your neck go up and a bit of a lump in the throat, you think, “gosh, this is incredible”. And at the same time, I'm slightly ashamed to admit “Oh, God, I've got to do this every year, this is just my luck.”

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All:

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[Laugh]

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James:

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Well, I can't think of another way of doing Remembrance Weekend that will be anything

as good as that. And so we're sort of locked into this wonderful thing, but it's now celebrated by motorsport. It is now the way British Motorsport marks Remembrance Weekend, and so any motorsport permit that is given out by motorsport UK for that weekend, they'll be encouraged to observe the silence to support the Poppy Appeal and to do something for Racing Remembrance.

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So you see simultaneous, lovely events happening across the UK in pit lanes. Whether it's at karting circuits or anywhere else as the British Motorsport industry reflects Remembrance Weekend and it's really special.

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Kate:

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Yes, absolutely magnificent.

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Tabi:

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Yeah, it sounds amazing and that gives me goosebumps. It must be so lovely. I think also the way you said this, it's very poignant. It, It always is on Remembrance Sunday when everyone's on at 11. It's so poignant. I think especially being in a group of people and being silent together. I think there was something so magical about that, as I'm sure you say. 

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James:

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Absolutely. 

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Tabi:

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When you said, it just felt like the most incredible experience. Just thinking about it, it just sounds wonderful that everyone is having such a shared experience of Remembrance and part of being grateful, being thankful, and then all going off racing again must be such a lovely journey of emotion. And then everyone's in it together. It just sounds like a really lovely initiative. 

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Kate:

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But it's very progressive, isn't it? So there's that poignancy, but then there's moving forward, and I read something the other day that said the answers are in the silence.

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And to your point earlier, when do we stop? But actually when we do stop that's when difficult things come in.

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James:

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You really do. It's something that I actively look forward to because I think it's quite a difficult time of year, you know, particularly November. And the days are suddenly shortening

to such a dramatic degree. You know, by that time the leaves go off the trees, the weather turns even more bloody horrible and I think certainly for our community, it's something around that time of year I think can be quite difficult.

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I actually find myself looking forward to that moment because it's cathartic. It's amazing to do it with all of those folk together. But you come out of it, you know, having felt better for doing that and to sort of have been through that moment and be out to the other side.

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So it's something that I really find myself kind of looking forward to now. And, the joy is that others do too. I mean, when we did it we had no idea that anyone else would kind of like it or want to join in with it, with us. And it's glorious as it's just growing and growing. We were full, for the 12 hour endurance race in Anglesey, we were full for Race Of Remembrance karting done down in Thruxton at the same time. And I guess the challenge is to go, well, how do we help more people to experience that way of marking Remembrance Weekend without expecting everybody to go to bloody Anglesey or anywhere else?

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I think the development phase for Race Of Remembrance is to go, how do you help translate that so that more people can feel part of it?

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Kate: 

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What a magnificent thing. 

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Tabi:

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Yeah. And on a personal level, for you, obviously what you're doing is you're helping other people. That is kind of the bones of it, really. You're doing things and putting things into action to help other people.

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But for you on a very personal level, what do you do to keep yourself, your mind and your body in check so that you're also looking after yourself, whilst you're looking after other people?

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James:

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If you say the words post traumatic people immediately jump to stress disorder. You know, post-trauma. So after stress, the standard link for that is to go through a stress disorder. It's managing it badly, and in the same way, if you talk about mental health, you're not talking about mental fitness, you're talking about something,and the assumption is that there is an issue. We only ever talk about bad mental health.

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Kate: 

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Yeah.

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James: 

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We don't go, oh, look how mentally fit so-and-so is. We weirdly do it in other ways, we talk about people who are a joy to be around, and we talk about people who make you feel better

and you do things like that.

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But we don't talk about mental fitness in the same way. So when I came back from Afghanistan, I hadn't really realised or recognised initially what was happening and what had happened to me. And I was being treated for PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder

because I had been subjected to a great deal of trauma, which I wasn't processing

and dealing with in the right way. And the charity for me was an amazing way to help me deal with those things, it made me feel better to be helping others.

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It helps some of the missionary fervor or working for free for a long time and things like that, which drove the charity in the beginning. But, me personally, I still have a bit of that missionary fervor about me, but I think it's a bit better regulated than it used to be. 

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Post-traumatic growth, I think, is the defining experience of an entire generation of people who went through that. You mentioned Johnny Paul. Johnny Paul works for us, he's part of that mission community team that's promoting and uplifting the armed forces, community and society. He's started a thing called the Afghan Veterans Community, which is absolutely phenomenal. But it's very much using - yes you've been subjected to stress and physical training you break muscle fiber in order to build it back stronger.

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Kate:

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Yeah.

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James: 

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Post-traumatic growth, I think, is the defining experience really of our generation. And we've  got just talking about Afghanistan,150,000 people in this country served on operations in Afghanistan, and their families, those whose lives they touched is a bigger population than that, too.

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How do we help them to thrive, and how do we help them to be successful beyond that point, because they are a strategic British asset? And if we can help them to harness the life experiences which they've had and turn it to the greater good, both at society and community. real low levels, and to help them to thrive themselves - that's really the thing that drives me.

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So in answer to your question theoretically loads of great stuff but like everybody else, I kind of struggle to find time. Teenage kids, all the rest of it, the pressure for those bits and pieces.

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But outdoors, physical stuff is so important. That's always the first thing that I kind of neglect. And as I'm sort of trying to slow down for Christmas in a year which has been a bit challenging and there hasn't been much in the way of leave or holidays or any of those things, that's exactly what I'm going to be trying to do in the bit of a gap that we've got in between Christmas and New Year is doing as much of that as I can, and to try to have the personal discipline to continue to do that when work is really kicking back in in the New Year. 

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So you asked me, how do I do it? And I've given you an answer of how how I aspire to do it

when everything is perfect.

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Kate:

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Yeah.

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James: 

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But having a bit of a clear vision about what recharges and replenishes you is really important. And doing our best to recognize that - that's important.

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Kate:

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No, definitely.

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James: 

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And that's the best we can all do.

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Kate:

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It's brilliant. It’s that whole thing about growth, and I think we have to. Sometimes the word discipline feels like the wrong word to use.

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James: 

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Yeah. It doesn’t sound much fun, does it?

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Kate: 

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Discipline to do something that.

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James: 

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That you really like doing? Yes.

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Kate:

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Yeah. Exactly. But thank you for sharing that with us because that's really, really significant and actually clearly the driver. Which brings me on to something I saw when I was thinking about this earlier in the week.

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You've got on your LinkedIn that you're a professional lucky bloke and I was saying earlier, 

you're possibly the hardest working man, has the greatest work ethic that I've ever, ever met.

And I wonder if you've always been like that, because with Mission Motorsport, but also you're doing things with climate, with sustainability. So there's so many other things, that powerhouse. Have you always been a bit like that in terms of creating things?

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James: 

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Yes, I think I've always been an enthusiast, if you can figure out the things that you're passionate about, then pursue them passionately, you know, go at it. And then I'd forgotten I had that in my Linkedin profile “professional lucky bloke” because I absolutely, fundamentally believe that you make your own luck.

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Kate:

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Exactly. 

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James: 

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People talk about, oh, you know, it's such an amazing fate that you know these things. No, you've created that, you know, you've put yourself in the position where those things are more likely to happen than not.

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And you create in yourself the habits of recognising fleeting opportunities which others would not seize on. But if you go, yeah, sod it, I'm going to lean in, I'm going to have that conversation or I'm going to go and ask somebody for help who otherwise you wouldn't have done because you think that person's really good.

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And I admire the way that they go about how they do it. Having the confidence and the humility to pick the phone up. You say, “I kind of want to ask you advice on this” or “I've seen this thing which is happening” then it's amazing what comes out of it, which you know, they're really lucky these things fall into their lap.

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No, b****ocks, you've made it happen. So you totally create your own luck. So I'm almost, I guess, a professional lucky bloke.

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The thing that I seek to do professionally is to make luck, to make those kinds of connections, and the thing about which I've been passionate is being a part of British society. And so, if I can turn my efforts towards creating better life outcomes for them then that's kind of cool.

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And if you pursue that relentlessly, then good things will happen.

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Kate:

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Yeah.

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James:

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Because what people don't see is all the times when you've been unlucky or you tried something and it was b****ocks.

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Kate:

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Yeah, exactly.

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James: 

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And you've just got to be honest with yourself and with others to go, “yeah, that didn't really work” or “that hasn’t happened” but if you don’t try these things then you don't know.

Kate:

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Yeah.

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James: 

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You know, go and fail lots of times because that's helping you to learn then what succeeds. But just sort of picking yourself up and going at it is really cool. I think that's probably answered the question.

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So yeah, I guess I do. I haven’t really thought about it like that but always when I've liked something I've leant in and gone “well, how can I do this well?” “how can I not do this well?” or “how can I connect this better?”

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Which is good, but I think I'm learning loads along the way as well. I've learned so much since, people sort of go, “you're an army kind of bloke.” Actually, for the last 12 years, I haven't been. I'm obviously connected to all of that sort of stuff, but I’m a civilian, I need to be quite good at sort of doing that stuff. 

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I learn so much from people, and looking at things and thinking what do I like or admire or even don't like necessarily but you respect because it’s like, why are they doing that, is it about the way they're being ruthless with their time? Is it about the way in which they're honest with people or the things that I think I admire most in others is often where they're able to get the best out of other people and to help to promote and lift them up.

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Kate: 

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Yeah. 

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James: 

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Yeah, that's quite cool. And that's something I'm deliberately working on becoming better at.

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Kate: 

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Yeah. You're brilliant, you really are.

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James:

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[Laughs] Well you would say that, but I'm a huge admirer of you, you see, there you are. Thank you.

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Kate: 

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[Laughs]  But I think you know your point and all that wisdom you just shared about passion and pursuing and also learning, as you say, the learning and failing and the learning and then picking things that other people do brilliantly. And other things you think, wow, that's cool. And then you try to do it, and you think “it’s not my thing”. But that's all great learning nonetheless.

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James: 

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Yeah.

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Kate: 

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Oh, it's been so fascinating speaking with you, and thank you so much for your time. We ask one question of all of our guests, and that is what is your advice for life?

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James: 

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I’ve thought about this a little bit before and you go what's the thing that really needs to sort of come away with this?

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And I think your last question really sort of encapsulates things beautifully. You're only on this planet for a fairly short period of time. So you've just got to work out what is it that really drives you? And they don't need to be incredibly lofty goals. You know, you don't need to set about world peace or curing cancer, or doing any of those things. But, what you do have to do is to do something which gives you meaning. And, ultimately, life has to be about the pursuit of meaning. That's the meaning of life. The meaning of life isn't, the clue is in the thing, is meaning.

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And so finding the thing that you're proud of, that you love and how can you work towards that in your working life and in your private life as well, has to be the thing that kind of drives you. 

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And just be gentle to yourself a little bit. You're not going to solve everything. You will get knocked back along the way. But if you're working honestly towards the things that ultimately motivate you and which you love, you'll get there. And I think that's the most important piece.

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Tabi:

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That's really so lovely, I think. Yeah, just the way, I've literally written it down. Pursuit of meaning, I think, is such a lovely little pearl of… 

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Kate:

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Wisdom. 

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Tabi:

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Yeah. It's just, you put it in a really eloquent way and it’s so lovely to hear.  And that’s kind of the advice. 

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James:

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I probably stole it from somebody else, and I’m not crediting them for it. So there you go. That's my meaning is to effortlessly repurpose the wisdom of others and make it sound like I'm being profound. [Laughs] Yes! I'm nailing it.

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Kate: 

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So it all comes back to emotion, doesn't it? How we feel? We might sometimes feel really challenged, but generally we're feeling that we're excited and we're loving it and we're trying to make something happen. And that's brilliant. 

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James: 

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Yeah, totally. I mean, I wear one of those fitness wristbands…The other day I was absent mindedly just going back on what's my pulse rate going over the last few days. And you can see when you’ve exercised and when you haven't.

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Kate:

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Yeah.

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James: 

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We have an emotional heart rate and an emotional pulse as well. And if you're finding that days in a row you're flatlining and you're not hitting emotional highs, then you need to work out how do I build in emotional exercise into my routine so that it’s happening more often than it is not.

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Kate:

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Yeah, that's brilliant. Brilliant piece of advice for everybody.

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Tabi:

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Yeah. Thank you so much for speaking so passionately as well. I think being so open and honest and speaking with passion and being so insightful about everything, it's been really inspirational speaking to you.

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Kate: 

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Real joy.

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Tabi:

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And I think everyone listening will also feel the same and will have taken something out. I've literally got like three quotes written down which involve things that you've said, and I'm sure people listening will also have picked out some lovely, eloquent things you said.

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So yeah, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us so openly about your life and Mission Motorsport. It's been really lovely to hear them both come together and how they each impact the other, which is lovely.

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Thank you so much. And we hope everyone at home loved this one as well. If you did, please do leave us a comment, subscribe and do all the lovely things. 

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We'll see you next time with another incredible guest.

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Kate:

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Yes. Thank you so much James. Thank you everyone, we’ll see you next time. 

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Tabi: 

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Yeah. Bye!

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Kate:

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Bye!

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