Lucy Eaton, actor and founder of Revels in Hand talks with Tabs and Kate about the power of using your voice and getting better by doing, and celebrating the wins.

Lucy Eaton is an actor and founder of Revels in Hand, She trained at LAMDA and went on to roles at the Donmar Warehouse, The Old Vic and West End. More recently she played 'Lucy' in the critically acclaimed BBC hit comedy 'Staged'. She hosts a podcast called 'Hear me Out' with guests from the acting industry talking about their favourite speeches and tales of what happens backstage!
Lucy is the founder of Revels in Hand, a company that truly makes the magic happen creating world-class theatrical productions for private individuals, families and organisations across the world.
It's a goodie!
Thank you for listening, Tabs and Kate ❤️

Title: Lucy Eaton, actor and founder of Revels in Hand talks with Tabs and Kate about the power of using your voice and getting better by doing, and celebrating the wins.

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Date: November 24, 2024 at 11:41 AM

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Tabi Tojeiro: Welcome to Livestream, a podcast to inspire and provoke, in which we delve into the meaning of success. We chat development, self-care, and journeys with some absolutely phenomenal people. We are a mother-daughter duo who have both had very different life experiences. This is my fabulous mum, Kate Tojeiro. She is deep in the world of business leadership and she really cares about how people can make a difference.

Kate Tojeiro: And this is my awesome daughter, Tabi Tojeiro, who graduated this summer as an actor. She currently works in the luxury events sector while she's forging her way into the world and finding out what her path is going to be. But in today's episode, we're absolutely thrilled that we've got Lucy Eaton with us! Welcome, Lucy.

Lucy Eaton: Hi!

Kate Tojeiro: Lucy Eaton trained as an actor at LAMDA, the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art. She went on to play roles at the Donmar Warehouse, the Old Vic and in the West End. More recently, she played ‘Lucy’ in the critically acclaimed BBC hit comedy ‘Staged.’ She also hosts a podcast called Hear Me Out, with guests from the acting world.  They talk about their favorite speeches and all the juicy backstage gossip. Lucy is the founder of Revels in Hand, a company that truly makes the magic happen, creating world-class theatrical productions for private individuals, families and organisations across the world in diverse environments. Thank you so much for being with us today.

Lucy Eaton: Thank you so much for having me.

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Kate Tojeiro: The first question I wanted to ask you is: are you one of those actors that always wanted to be an actor? Was it something that was in your childhood all the time or did it come later?

Lucy Eaton: I think it was a sort of middle childhood dream. I think when I was really young, I was not a wallflower, and I think if you see home videos of me, you'd say, "What a precocious child! I'm not surprised she became an actor." But I wasn't actively seeking it, and I don't think I was telling people I wanted to be an actor. I think I was telling people I wanted to be a princess, and then I was telling people I wanted to be a vet. I think it wasn't the only dream. I have told the story a few times to different people, but I basically always did the school plays and I found them really fun. But I was never the lead then when I was about 12, the school play was My Fair Lady, and I somehow landed Eliza Doolittle and I don't think anyone thought I would get it. I didn't think I would get it. But that show made me want to be an actor, because if I'm honest, I thoroughly enjoyed being in the limelight, and I had such a fun time. It was such a great experience, and I just remember the end of that being like, you know what, I think I want to be an actor. But even then, I think that the rest of my school life, I was definitely pursuing other things. And the idea of being an actor was always something that I was like, well, I'll try and get into drama school and I'll give it a couple of years, but then if it doesn't happen, maybe I'll take the hint. There were lots of things I wanted to do, and acting was definitely the passion thing, but I don't think I was totally blinkered, you know? 

Tabi Tojeiro: And obviously, I've been to drama school, and it's an experience in itself. But what do you feel you...obviously, you were trained in acting at drama school and that's what you do, but what do you think you took out of it that wasn't so much just for the stage but as a person? What do you think you took out of it and learned from it?

Lucy Eaton: Oh, very good question. I didn't have the best time at drama school. Which is a shame because I got into the school I most wanted to get into. The day I got in was one of the happiest days of my life. For a whole number of reasons I just didn't feel invested in it when I got there in the way that I felt when I got in, and the desire I had to get in. I so wanted to get in and there's some very little things, like my university boyfriend and I both got into LAMDA and didn't get into anywhere else, which, you know, to anyone who's tried to apply to drama school, that is unthinkably random and that we would both get into the same year in the same drama school and not anywhere else. 

That didn't help because we subsequently broke up in the first term. So there were little things like that. There was lots of personal stuff that meant I always felt a little bit on the outside of my group, who are all excellent human beings, and I really love to see them now. But all of this, I guess, is to say, in a weird way, one of the things I got most from my drama school experience was cynicism. 

It sounds really a bit dark, but actually, I think I went into LAMDA like a very sunny, positive, you know, "I can achieve anything!" girl and I was like, "I know I'm a great actor, and I know everyone says it's hard out there but I'm going to be different," but actually, I did really struggle mentally throughout drama school.

I wasn't particularly happy when I was there. And so I think in a way, it maybe gave me a little bit of... I don't know, I don't want to be gloomy about it or be like, "Put me back in my box," but I think it meant that even with everything I'm saying here, I definitely left with a rosier idea of how easy the industry would be, but I do think it started to help me just be a bit more cynical about how it's all going to work, maybe not assume that talent and hard work can get you where you want to go. So that was probably the main thing I got out of it. But I mean, the main thing was the training. 

I would say the training was less the acting and more the technique around everything. So I remember my recall for LAMDA, there were 15 people watching you on this long table, and I'm doing one of my monologues, and at the end, someone on the panel said "Why do you think you need to come to drama school?" And I remember thinking, "Oh God, I don't know," I sort again, perhaps arrogantly in the moment, I was like, "I don't know whether I think I do need to. I want to. I think it'll be fun. Yeah, it'll be fun, and I think I'll get an agent better at the end," but in the moment, I was like, that obviously won't be an acceptable answer. 

So I remember saying, "I don't think I use my voice very well" And this entire panel of 15 people were all like, ‘no you don’t’ ... And I was like, "Oh God, okay." So I think  what I got out of it most was learning how to start using your voice in a way where you're doing it better subconsciously rather than...I don't think I came out of LAMDA a better actor than I went in. I think people get better by doing. I think I'm a better actor at the end of my time at university than I was when I started but that's because I did different plays every single week. 

I would like to think I may be a better actor now than I obviously was back then. I don't feel that my acting changed at LAMDA, but I think my technique skyrocketed. What was your experience?

Tabi Tojeiro: Yeah, really similar, actually. And even at the moment, doing job interviews and stuff, a few people have been like, "Oh, actually, we picked out your CV because you said you trained as an actor." And I thought, "Oh, that's really interesting." They were just saying it  gives you such skills that you wouldn't learn in any another university degree. And I feel like now I'm going into different industries, I'm really seeing that, even just with communication skills, being able to have a conversation with someone you've never met before about, like, X, Y, and Z. But that's why I asked you because I feel like I can really see it coming through.

Lucy Eaton: and that's so lovely. And actually I'm torn between this... I was about to say I feel like that's so lovely. I wish more people thought about doing an acting degree just to enhance their skills, like as a communicator and as a person who plays and who is creative in any job. And to be honest, there isn't enough room in the industry for everyone who goes to drama school to have a successful career. Sadly there just isn't. 

I saw someone recently write something on their Instagram, someone who I follow, who was like "If someone says there's no room, they need to shut up." And I'm like, "But there isn't." This is an industry where supply and demand is totally skewed. There are too many people who want to be an actor, and there are not enough jobs.

And even if you say, "Well, let's make more jobs," then you just have a situation which we're in at the moment where we make so much material that most of it goes unwatched. It's like you can only make enough material to be suitable that audiences can invest in. The downside of the Netflix era that we're in now is Netflix churns stuff out to the point that you're like on my podcast, I can't remember who it was, but one of my guests said this: 

"The problem is they're making all this stuff on Netflix, and you make it, and then no one watches it." And yeah, invested all this time, and of course you've been paid, and it's your job, and so great, but you feel so emotionally invested in the work you've made, and then sometimes these shows come and go and no one even watched them. So anyway, I digress but I wish more people looked at an acting degree and were like, "Okay, if I'm going to become an actor, fine, like this is still handy." 

Kate Tojeiro: I think it's really insane, the point you both make because I think obviously listening to you and knowing the experience you went through, there's that whole piece that you're almost pared down to not be yourself. Yes, you have to strip back so you have to take hold, but I think those skills in business are so important and creativity is sometimes lacking or put in the box. You know, got a deadline, we get to this, we get to the end. All pursuit.

So the creativity, innovation, of course, we all know actually makes things flourish and be absolutely incredible but that's sometimes not there. So that element of... there's some of the training, I think. And it's interesting when you talk about cynicism that I know you often at times came out certainly feeling flatter but sometimes reflecting on life or reflecting as you say on human emotions, because there's something about being an actor and that's the training we don't get at school about being human, and the fact that sometimes we're sad, and it's not awful, we're just sad, and other days we're really happy, and we don’t know why are you really happy? But it’s human and that’s fine. 

But that's the ebb and flow of human emotions, and actually that's great. And to your point, if we could get more of that in industry, actors could come in and train and teach and enable... mental health perspective, understanding what it is to sit with emotion. 

Lucy Eaton: I would say actors are not the most mentally stable, I don't know why... But no, but you're absolutely right.

Kate Tojeiro: But it’s for that reason, because you have to push yourself away, push yourself completely away. 

Lucy Eaton: Yeah, absolutely. But you are right, Kate. And I think also the kind of "Yes" mentality that you associate with improv... I think there's a lot of acting, certainly certain schools, and LAMDA  was so like this. LAMDA’s big focus was ensemble and I don't know whether it's still like that. Of course, all drama schools change all the time depending on who the staff are and who the principal is. But when I was there, it was really known as the ensemble drama school, they made actors who were great in casts and as a contrast, maybe unfairly or not, the assumption when I was around was that RADA made stars and LAMDA made people who you really wanted in your cast. RADA made the superstar and LAMDA made the ensembles. 

And so maybe if that is true... I did not go to RADA, and obviously, it's an incredible drama school, not criticising RADA, but if that is true, then maybe the RADA training would not necessarily do what we're saying. The LAMDA type training, yes, go on and get that into businesses generally, "I now know how to be a great member of a team."  You don't get that sort of training in an English degree at uni.

Kate Tojeiro: Well, that's what I mean. Absolutely, whatever your expertise is, whether it's accounting, software, algorithms, whatever, but actually that whole skill of working with a group of people... 

Lucy Eaton: Yeah, yeah. 

Kate Tojeiro: We're fortunate if we get that.

Lucy Eaton: Absolutely. 

Kate Tojeiro: Or we work for a great organisation that really sees the value in it. Companies that put money where their mouth is, that sort of thing. So from working in the West End, in some really prestigious theatres doing theatrical plays, how did you make the transition from that into what you do now with Revels In Hand?

Lucy Eaton: Well, it was all actually quite early. Revels in Hand had a big party this year, it was our 10th birthday in January, so we're almost 11 years old. It's been going for yonks now but interestingly, it was all quite organic. I had been out of drama school for, I think, a year and a half, and it had been... to talk earlier about that cynicism, even with whatever cynicism I gained, that first year and a half was an absolute baptism of fire in learning how little the industry cared. I had a real rude awakening of whatever I thought I deserved from the industry, it was not going to be given to me. 

I was quite down about it. And looking back now, it was a pretty good year! I graduated in the summer, and I remember that autumn, winter, maybe in the November, I understudied at the Finborough but I basically stepped in to take over from someone who suddenly had to drop out for a week. So I stepped in, had to learn her part and do the play for a week. And then I got into The Duchess of Malfi at the Old Vic and did that for, with rehearsals and performance, for five months of my year or thereabouts. It’s hilarious, because I look back now, I was so depressed after the first year and a half, two years, I think I felt like, "Wow, nothing is happening." And of course, that's because, even having said the things I said there, that probably doesn't amount to five and a half months of work in two years. So it does very quickly feel really bleak. And I had actually sort of taken a moment away from it, even just a few months. I was just “I’m just not gonna not think about it for a bit, I'm going to do my private tutoring to earn money, and I'm going to go and save up some money and go and visit friends who live abroad, and I'm just going to try and live a little bit." Which, of course, is another thing that actors really should do but a lot of actors don't because they do sit right by the phone. And at the end of this period of time, I actually went to a hen do of a girl I'd been at university with and we had a mutual friend who was also at this hen do, and she had just graduated from Guildhall two months before, and she was sick of it. 

It’d taken her two months to think "Yeah, this is, this is awful. This is awful. Why is no one giving me jobs?" And she approached me at this hen do and basically said, "I want to start a theatre company." In her mind, I think she wanted to do it, but not with a really, really good friend, which, of course, makes total sense. I think we bumped into each other at this hen do, and we knew each other really well and respected each other and really liked each other, and I think she was like, "Oh my god, Lucy's perfect, you know? We're not risking some deep, important friendship if this doesn't work. I think we will work well together." 

And we then brought on a very good friend of mine, Freddie, and the three of us started a production company, which I was, again, very cynical about. I think when we started it I really didn't know what we were going to do with this or get out of it, but who was I to say no to anything? Might as well give it a year and see what comes out of this. 

And it absolutely totally changed my life. 

So that theatre company was and still is Go People. In that first year of Go People existing, the very first show we were going to put on at the Waterloo East Theatre, a little fringe theatre under the tunnels in Waterloo, it flooded. My memory is I got a phone call from the guy who owned it. We were meant to be doing a two-week run of this play, and this guy rang up about a month before and said, "I'm so sorry, we've got to cancel everything for the next few months, because the theatre's flooded." 

We were so keen to just do something and not be sitting around on our asses, pop-up things were very big back then, 11 years ago. I remember I had a lot of friends who were doing pop-up jazz gigs, and everything was popping up and so I was like, "Why don't we just do a pop-up theatre? Why don't we just do the play?" The play's ready to go, we'd rehearsed it. "Why don't we just do the play in someone's home? Let's find someone's empty home. Let's find a person who's moving, and on the day they move out before the next people move in, let's do a play there for the night."  

We just started asking around, and ultimately, there was a couple I knew who loved theatre, who lived in a flat above Covent Garden, and I said, "Look, could we come and do this play in your house?" I mean, they were living there, they were moving out, it wasn't empty. 

I was like "Can we do it in your living room for a couple of nights and just invite some industry?" And we just kind of wanted to make our mark and tell people we were making work, then they said yes. They were so kind, they said yes. So we said as a sweetener, you can invite some friends.

There was probably room for20 people and if we invite 10 guests every night, you invite 10 friends, and we'll just make a little row of seats with your sofas." 

And so we did. A journalist from The Independent ended up coming and doing this huge feature on it, a double-page spread, which actually, thankfully, is not online, because he asked us what we charge and we said 600 pounds because we didn't know what to say. The idea now that we could deliver a private theatre performance for 600 pounds is obviously laughable. So I'm really glad it's not online. And in fact, our first ever booking was a very sweet lady called Jane, she rang us up and she said "I saw your article in The Independent. What can you bring me for 600 pounds?" Of course, at the time, we were only 24 or something, so we probably just did it for nothing. We did it for 600 pounds and everyone got paid, 50 pounds to entirely learn and rehearse a play. But that was the beginning of what ultimately ended up being called Revels In Hand. 

For the last 11 years, they've run alongside each other. So Go People is the public production company and we produce shows at venues like, Soho Playhouse and Park Theatre. 

Then Revels In Hand became the sort of private luxury entertainment business. It has absolutely turned our lives around, mine, Mel and Freddie's. I would have it no other way now. I absolutely love the trajectory that my career, my life has taken. And I love having that alongside the normal acting, rather than actually doing what I originally really wanted to do, which was just be an actor, so I feel very lucky.

Kate Tojeiro: Interesting you say that, because I was looking at some photographs the other day, just to do a bit of research on you, and the joy in your face and some of the things you did that they... in more candid photographs, are just...they're almost visceral. You can feel it...

Lucy Eaton: Aw, that's so lovely to hear and that is honestly so true. I will be putting things together for a pitch or something, and I'll stumble across these photos, and I'll be messaging Freddie saying, "Man, do you remember that?" and a really perfect example is at this time last year, the end of October, Halloween last year, we went out to perform for an American client who books us loads in the UK, and they were like, "We want a murder mystery in our house in Ohio." They had a huge budget, so we could absolutely afford to do it. So we wrote with our team, we got one of our writers to create a totally brand new one-hour-long murder mystery comedy. 

We styled it to the nines, had the most fabulous costumes and everything, flew out to Ohio, did this play. It was amazing. We're developing a public version of that play now with Go People because it was so fab... it was such an unbelievably, highly strung, stressful but joyful experience and mad, that I will never forget. 

I remember on the way back, I flew via New York so I could do some meetings with American clients out there, and I remember arriving in New York, a couple of actor friends had come with me and were just having a weekend in New York, we were all sharing a hotel room, and I remember getting to the hotel room, and they were like, "Right, let's go out, let's have fun." And I was like, "Oh, guys, I'm almost having heart palpitations. I think I need to just have a little nap, and then I'll see you for dinner." 

They went out and I just burst into tears. And I'm... ringing my husband and he was like, "Oh God, are you alright? Did it go well?" 

I said, "Honestly, this is just emotion pouring out. It's not... I'm not sad, I'm over the moon, this has been so amazing and so fun, and so, like, this is why we do it, you know? This has been bloody brilliant." 

I was just weeping, because I think I was just so highly strung, the whole thing was too much, you know? And just this year I've just been, with it being that time of year again, I keep being reminded of it. And you find when you're running your own company as well, to a certain extent, you start working with the same people over and over again and of course, the people you end up working with for the most part are your friends who are brilliant at that thing. And of course, there are certain shows we do both with Go People and Revels In Hand where we cast outside of our usual gang, but there is a team of maybe 10 to 20 actors that we use very regularly, and these people have become absolutely like family now. 

We've all had the most mental experiences together in the craziest houses and in the weirdest situations, having to pull together shows at the most absurdly short notice. And just the memories we have together. 

When we had this birthday party at the beginning of the year it honestly felt like a wedding. We had a few different people speak and Mel and Freddie and I were just, again, in tears. 

The next morning, I was like, "I feel like I got married again last night," because to be in a room with these people that are so important to us and that we've had so many mad experiences with, and to have them stand up and thank us for the joy that we brought...it was all too much. I think we just feel very, very lucky. 

Tabi Tojeiro: Yeah, I think it's also so lovely hearing you speak, because obviously you're speaking from a point that you feel so proud that you've made it, and you've set up this incredible company, done incredible things, you can hire people which also is just amazing. 

I think it's so nice to hear, because I think also lots of the time actors are quite open in the way that when you're talking and reflecting, I feel like you get such true, real conversations especially after you've done a show, oh my gosh, the evening after, everyone is just in the best mood, because everyone is so proud of each other, and if you've never been in it, felt it, you won't get it, but once you've had it... it's just amazing! 

Kate Tojeiro: But even as a non-actor being in the mix with it and you catch it, because it's just potent. 

Lucy Eaton: Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. The buzz is insane. 

Tabi Tojeiro: Yeah,it’s something I feel like lots of industries aren't lucky enough to have yet, and hopefully that starts coming through with people talking about things more, do you know what I mean?

Kate Tojeiro: Yeah, or I was going to say they do have it, but because of the cultural environment in a business often the celebrations don't happen. So something amazing has happened, it's a deal, or I don't know, something's coming in the business that's great, it's a new client, it's a new project, it's a new product, it's a milestone, there's that, "Okay, what next? 

And, so that almost says  we don't do them. Even if it's a few moments. And again, it's that giving permission, perceived or otherwise, to actually feel, feel, feel the success and sit in it, then, of course, that carries us to the next time, or to the next time when it does happen.

Lucy Eaton: Well, and also that's very British of us. I think even within acting, it's very British of us to not feel a success and to downplay it and that's also a shame. I find myself... my husband is from the Lake District, and he always says it's a northern thing. He's like, "Oh, no, no, like, don't brag about what you've done." I'm like, "It’s not bragging you've got to be proud of yourself." And I have to really encourage him. He'll do something remarkable, and I'll be like, "Can you just take a moment to realise how amazing…you know?” So I think that's very British as well, to, like you say Kate, to not feel your successes, to be "Oh, well, okay, anyway, onto the next thing." 

Kate Tojeiro: It was nothing when it really wasn't. Yeah, it was, it was everything.

Tabi Tojeiro: And being founder of Revels In Hand, and obviously being quite hands-on with what you're doing, every project very hands-on... What's your favorite brief to receive? Is it one where you have complete creative freedom or is it one where you've been given a direction?

Lucy Eaton: Oh, yeah complete creative freedom. There's a company we work a lot with, and they won't mind me saying this, we love them called Based On A True Story, they are this insanely amazing sort of travel agent, I mean, travel agent is not correct, but they are basically a company that plan mostly yachting trips. Not always, but mostly yachting trips, every trip they plan has a story to it. So they are almost a bit like a travel agent combined with Revels In Hand, but they could do with our help, as they would say. 

When we first introduced... they were like, "Oh my god, you would be our saviour," because that is so integral to what we do, but actually we're not necessarily experts in how to really pull off the theatrical side. They used to do a lot with extras and really mad visual effects and stuff, but when we could pair up with them "No, we can really sort the intimate nitty-gritty, like the acting, theatre moments for you." 

And we've done a lot with them which is really fun. Their CEO is a really creative guy himself, brilliant guy, and part of the joy he set up the company because he loves coming up with these stories. 

So understandably, whenever we're brought in to help him with something, he's like, "This is the thing, and we're going to do that, and it's going to be a story about a jewel, and it's going to be..." 

We love working with them but we're always like, "Hey, Neil, do you want to just bring us in a little bit earlier, so that we can help from the start?" And every time he's like, "So I planned out the story, and it's da da da," and we absolutely love them, but as an example, we're always like, "Ah, this would be so much better if actually we could just be in from the beginning.”

Whereas things like the murder mystery, for instance, we had this family ask, "We want a murder mystery," and that was literally it. "We want a murder mystery. We leave it to you, and whatever it costs, just do it." And we're like, "This is awesome we cannot wait." 

So the stuff where we have total creative control is any theatre producer's dream a that's why the private stuff is so good.

When we first did a big relaunch when were named Revels In Hand. It used to just be Go People Private Theatre. We did this big launch about six years ago now, and I remember we got a lot of amazing press, and we got one slightly scathing article in The Stage by Lyn Gardner who was saying "This is everything that's wrong with theatre at the moment," essentially because it was super exclusive. You know, we were offering a service that costs thousands of pounds to hire and she was understandably going, "The problem is theatre is too exclusive, and some people can't afford it and these guys are making it worse." 

And I guess our response to that was always, "We are producing publicly as well” but the reality is production companies cannot survive, unfortunately, producing publicly. So either you find angels, who are wealthy people who are going to subsidise your company, or you don't continue to exist, or you get Arts Council funding but again there is not enough of it. So for us, Revels In Hand was the subsidiser.

It was like, "Well, if we can have one arm of the company where we just charge people what it actually costs, we can pay actors really well, we can almost use it as an R&D space," which we're now going to try and do publicly with the murder mystery. We've already had another show that we did privately originally, which ended up going public, which was our version of a seven-actor Midsummer Night's Dream that we did at the Southwark Playhouse. So for us no, this private sector is, where we charge what actually it should cost to make this work, and then we can do the public stuff, where tickets are affordable and anyone can see it.

Kate Tojeiro: I think as a business model, though, that can work quite well with a number of businesses, the way people are thinking more about community and people and the climate and everything that we're doing, that actually, as you say there's some things that we do that we charge for because that's what it costs, and that's what it is. That means you can then support other initiatives and activities, or as you say, theatre, to make it accessible to everyone. So it's got levels, like everything..

Lucy Eaton: And we wouldn't want to lose either side of it. I think we've all had this conversation. There have been points throughout the last decade when we have moments of going, "This is stupid. Should we just abandon Go People and just make Revels In Hand our focus and make us millionaires?" Then we're like, "No, that doesn't feel nice we don't want to do that." But then equally, if someone said, "Here, just run a thing, and the government's going to give you some subsidy," I think we'd say, "It's really fun going into random rich people's houses and doing things in their living room. It's so weird, and it's fun, you know?" 

It's like...we wouldn't want to lose either.

Kate Tojeiro: We get that... we get so much learning from both, don't we? By being exposed to different areas of society or culture or whatever it is. They're doing very different things, and that's what I think creates the richness in terms of what you produce and what you create.

Lucy Eaton: Yeah. Oh, and also when you say about skills as well, Revels In Hand has ended up being, as actors, such an amazing training ground for us, because the speed with which... I think I mentioned earlier, but sometimes our bookings are so last minute. You know, not all the time, but it definitely happens once or twice a year, we'll get a booking where we're trying to pull something together in a few days almost, or certainly a week, less than a week. 

Even the murder mystery last year, we pulled that... and that was creating a brand new one-hour show, we pulled it together in something like three weeks. We rehearsed it in three days.

So it's been the most amazing training ground, in a way that, actually, in traditional theatre, you always have plenty of time. The National, the RSC give people six-week rehearsal periods. Which, frankly, now I'm like, "How absurd! What are you going to do for six weeks?" Yeah, you can probably pull these things together in two weeks at a push. So again, like you say,  the skill set from the two different things is amazing.

Tabi Tojeiro: So as an actor yourself, and someone who writes and produces everything, you've got to bring a lot of yourself and a lot of your own personal experiences to what you're writing so that other people can sympathise, empathise, and watch something and feel things that link in their own life. So obviously that can be quite heavy, depending on what you're writing about. Do you have things in place that you feel like you can still... not protect yourself, but make sure you still have that bubble around you because I think, especially at drama school, everyone's like, "Strip away all of that and just let yourself be vulnerable in front of everyone." But that's a very scary place to be, and I think it's very normal to ask drama schools "Actually, that's a bit too much. Like, I still need a lot to myself." But what kind of things do you find yourself doing so tha thave that sense of "I'm still my own person" while being very vulnerable at the same time?

Lucy Eaton: Very good question. So I would say there's two experiences I'm having here. Like, Revels In Hand, everything we produce, because, of course, we're going to people's houses, is usually very lighthearted, very fun. On top of that, because we are a bit of a spit-and-sawdust company, where I might be playing... I might not be in it, I might be in it, I might be playing the lead but I'm also one of the founders of the company and the producers, so inherently, I'm going to arrive at the house, I'm also going to be worrying how the client is. I would say I'm actually somewhat quite detached from the performance until the moment I step on, and then I am immediately detached from the performance the minute it ends as well not that I necessarily need to detach for them, because they tend to be very jolly, but I have had some very emotional responses, even in those situations, because you're so intimate. It's a bit like TV acting but minus the cameras. 

There's this one love scene, this romance scene that I had to do, one that usually Mel does if we do it in events, and Mel couldn't do it for some reason, so I did it, and with this actor we use all the time, Mark, who's incredible, and I remember at the end, we both came out from doing the scene, we were both a bit, "Oh my God, what was that? That was mad, like..." You know it felt so "Hummy," you know? It was quite mad not in a, you know, weird way. We're both very happily married, but in that the emotion was very intense. 

Generally, like I say, even then you come out, and you're like, "What was that? Oh my God." And you're immediately out of it, because you're thinking, "Oh my God, what's happening next? 

Separate to that, I guess, just my acting as an actor, not within my own company, I haven't necessarily done many really heavy things. Not by choice, again, as an actor, you don't get much choice at all, so it's just what happens to have come my way. And I think, as a general rule, I slightly prescribe to the Judi Dench style of acting, which is...acting. And I think that's maybe harder to stick to, maybe if you're doing a very unpleasant character or very unpleasant person who's going through, a lot. Like, in my podcast, I talked to Denise Gough at one point. She talked about doing Angels in America and how at the end she played, I think it's Harper, as the character... My brain's suddenly gone blank. But she talks about when it finished, she was like, "Get her out of me." You know, she had a real sense of "I could not wait for that to be over. I just did not want to say those lines anymore," because this character is so abused, and in a way that she found it so hard to be doing every night. So I can totally understand how, even me here saying, "Yeah, I prescribe to the Judi Dench way," maybe that is very challenging if you're playing Harper night after night after night in Angels in America. 

I've done a couple of characters who say unpleasant things or do unpleasant things or have unpleasant things done to them, but they are never substantial enough roles that I have felt totally lost in them. So the short answer is I'm not useful at all for that question. 

Tabi Tojeiro: No, it's nice hearing it, though. You've obviously said you haven't yet had a role where you feel like you're going home and still stuck in that, which I think is also amazing, because it's... it's easy.

Lucy Eaton: I also think, unfortunately again, this isn't a very helpful response. I think it's something I naturally do. It's not something I consciously do, but it probably is something inherent in my personality that means I'm never getting that in... you know, hopefully not in a bad way. But for instance the only example I can use actually is my last... my drama school... my final showcase play at drama school was a play called Vincent in Brixton by Nicholas Wright, which is an amazing play. It's basically about, how Van Gogh lived in Brixton for a short amount of time and was pulled home very quickly by his family, and historians generally think now that perhaps he was having an affair with his older…what's the word? For a person who rents you a room? 

Kate Tojeiro: Landlady? 

Lucy Eaton: Landlady! Yeah that was probably why he was pulled home, because there was some liaison with this older woman. So Nicholas Wright has written a play assuming what went on in that house. The woman is called Ursula Loyer, and she is a deeply depressed, struggling widow who has this relationship with Van Gogh. And I just add to the hilarity of all of this, LAMDA actually cast me and my ex-boyfriend as Ursula and Van Gogh, which actually ended up really not being the main issue, because we were just very good friends at that point, so it wasn't an issue on some romantic level. 

But that is the closest I've come to, like, being in a part... she was the central role, along with Van Gogh, and she was meant to be this very depressive woman. I don't remember being too bogged down in it. I think I stay quite cerebral in things like that, which I'm sure there's a lot of directors who would not like me for that as a result and may think less of me for that, and that is their prerogative. I do remember there was a fellow... there was a student in my year who had really struggled with depression, and they came up to me at the end, and I remember them saying "You got it," in trying to be really lovely to me and just saying "You know, that was great, and congratulations. You got it." 

And I remember sort of being quite... that's one of the best compliments I've ever got, and it's always really stuck with me, and it meant so much to me when they said this, because I remember thinking, Good, there you don't have to have experienced trauma, like deep, deep trauma, or you don't have to experience the thing, and you don't have to go into the depths of awfulness to be able to pretend... to be those things," which is always something I've believed, but it was quite nice to be able to sort of put that into action, at least have one person claim that it worked.

So as a general rule, I think, yes, I naturally stay a bit outside of stuff, but then if other people... it doesn't work that way, they would only feel good about a performance if they'd really sort of felt lost in it. I don't know. What's your take on it, Tabi?

Tabi Tojeiro: No, very similar. I... there have been a few... We did a play in my second year called Faustus, That Damned Woman by Chris Bush. 

Kate Tojeiro: Not overly jolly. 

Tabi Tojeiro: No, no. First play that we've done that was quite gritty and had big topics on, like, witches, and it was all about women and people thinking we were witches. But that was kind of the first one we'd all experienced together, and we all, as a cast, found it really hard, because it was, obviously, as it is, very long days, and it was in the winter as well, which I also don't think helped. It was dark all the time and we all really struggled with that. 

And I remember it was our last week, where... It was so funny. With our building, I don't know what happened, we were having power cuts, the heating wasn't working, so it was a miserable place to be anyway. We were doing it, and we all sat down, and we were like, "Right, we need to put something in place so that it doesn't hit us that much," because I think we all wanted so much out of it and so much out of our characters. We really put ourselves there, but in the action... now reflecting, I probably would say in an unsafe way. 

Lucy Eaton: Yeah, but not healthy so much. 

Tabi Tojeiro: Yeah, because we wanted so much for... Everyone really wanted to feel what the character felt and I think to a certain extent, that's great, but there does need to be a boundary.

Lucy Eaton: Totally, totally. And to bring up the great Dame Judi again, she is just one of the most exquisite actors that's ever lived, and she, for a fact, like, all the anecdotes you hear is that she'll be doing a tragedy, and she'll walk off stage and, like, crack a fart joke. So you obviously don't need to do that, you know? And again, if that's what someone wants to do, then obviously that is totally their prerogative, if they can find a safe way of doing it. But yes, I do think that certainly in my time, and I don't know whether you found this at drama school...But I do think there used to be, unfortunately, a bit of a glamorising of, "Make yourself suffer," you know? and I'm like, I don't think that's glamorous. I don't think it's necessary. And like you said, no it's not safe, actually. It's not safe, and it's not healthy. And again, if you want to listen, in the Antonia Thomas interview on my show, she talks about that very much so and the dangers of that. It's interesting.

Tabi Tojeiro: No, it is. 

Kate Tojeiro: It's that whole looking after yourself, isn't it? And how you look after your emotions. Listening to you and being in a business environment...There are even things, I think, or even... Of course, there are things in a corporate business environment where things are really, really tough and really, really hard. But actually, sometimes you still need to see life... or levity. 

Lucy Eaton: Absolutely. 

Kate Tojeiro: Not to say that a hard thing isn't hard but in terms of being able to cope with it or deal with it, with everything that you're capable of, and your creativity and your innovation, when something hard just hit, you know, just hit a wall, and gone, "Rawr!" rather than going into that “Uuh”. 

Lucy Eaton: And actually, that's really interesting what you said, Kate, because you're right even in business... Because I was about to say I think actors do and creatives do sometimes get the raw end of the deal. I was about to say because we get so much more emotionally invested in our work, but actually you're right. I think in all work nowadays, people do that, and that is a flaw. As in, we've all come to make work... It's like how people say we should stop making the first question you ever ask someone, "What do you do?" Because it's like our job doesn't have to be our identity, but I think at the moment it is. For so many people, our job is our identity. 

And even more so now, the a cost of living crisis, and couples where both people want to work, so actually it's like, "Well, how do you afford childcare?" So you both have to work till you absolutely collapse to afford all the things that just enable you to live. And I think you're absolutely right, Kate. It's across all things. We all need to understand work is one aspect of our life, and if something is hard or not going well, we've got to be able to remove that from the rest of our life. And yes I think actors are particularly bad at doing that, but you're so right that I'm sure in business scenarios people are doing it as well. 

Kate Tojeiro: It's always finding the thing that works for you whether you're an actor, when you're running a business, whether you're actually doing... both as you are, you know? And all of those things, those little moments that help us keep our feet back on the ground. 

Tabi Tojeiro: So I'm moving into a very positive way of looking at it. What's your definition of success?

Lucy Eaton: I'm obsessed with the idea of happiness. So I understand the happiness in it is... in and of itself is a term that gets debated over and over "Should we really all be aspiring to be happy?" 

Happy is very much a temporary feeling. You shouldn't expect to be happy all the time. My brother talks about contentment, which I think is really helpful. So I do think we should all be aspiring to be content all the time and I think my definition of success is being able to sit in a place of contentment. 

It doesn't matter what you're doing, but if you can sit in a place of contentment, you could be doing anything, but if you're like, "Yeah, I'm okay. I'm happy with this, you know, standard of living, and I'm happy with what I've achieved today, and I'm happy." Yes, I think that is my definition.

Tabi Tojeiro: That's amazing. Yeah, I really like that.  

Kate Tojeiro: Wonderful.

Kate Tojeiro: Oh, it's been such a joy speaking with you.

Lucy Eaton: So lovely. The sun has gone down while we chatted.

Tabi Tojeiro: Yeah, literally. It's got dark. 

Kate Tojeiro: Yes, it has got dark.. It's awesome.

Lucy Eaton: That was so lovely, guys. What a nice chat.

Kate Tojeiro: Yeah, you’re doing fantastic. And I want to ask you one question that we ask all of our guests: What is your advice for life?

Lucy Eaton: Oh god! Gratitude journal. This actually comes back to my obsession with happiness. I find the study of happiness very interesting. And I do think I am a person who is a little bit like we were saying with the acting earlier, I don't want to take credit for a way in which I approach difficult things, because I think it's actually just naturally what I have, which I'm lucky with, rather than anything I would take credit for. 

I think happiness is the same. I think I've always been a naturally quite positive person, but when I started looking into happiness, I've realised there's so much science behind it, and a lot of the things that are recommended are things that I've just always done, and I was like "Oh, that's interesting. I wonder to what extent these things that I was naturally doing have been folding into actually a daily, active practice of trying to look on the bright side." 

My idea of a gratitude journal is literally I write one thing every day that I'm thankful for and I try to make a rule that it can't be food-based, unless it's really extraordinary, because otherwise every day would be like, "That great donut! My delicious dinner!" but other than that, that's my only rule. 

What it does is, you start walking through the day, and you'll just see a nice coloured thing, or the sun will set in a nice way, or someone will let you in front of them in a queue, and your brain starts getting trained to think, "That was nice. Maybe I'll put that in my journal." "That was nice." Maybe. And so, in a way, you start literally noticing and clocking the good things in your day.

Kate Tojeiro: The glimmers…

Lucy Eaton: I like that. Yeah, the glimmers.

Lucy Eaton: So maybe gratitude generally. That's my tip.

Tabi Tojeiro: Amazing, amazing. Yeah, thank you so much, Lucy. It's been so nice, and I think refreshing as well to talk about such a... breadth of things, and the same topic within, as you said, like, acting, creative, also business. And it's been really lovely, with actually very similar parallels. And it's really nice to hear that and listen to that. So thank you so much for being just open and honest and bubbly, and thank you for a very lovely chat.

Lucy Eaton:  Thank you for a very lovely chat. Thank you for having me on your lovely show.

Tabi Tojeiro: Pleasure. So I hope everyone at home enjoyed listening to this one. If you did, please do leave us a comment and give us a like and let us know what you thought, and please come back for our next episode, where we'll have some more amazing, wonderful people. 

Kate Tojeiro: Thank you for joining us. We've been inspired. Hope you have too. 

Kate & Tabi: Bye!

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